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The Hunger Games: Katyess or Katnyet? SPOILERS AHEAD

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The Hunger Games: Katyess or Katnyet? SPOILERS AHEAD

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:02 pm

oh hey, I finished the "Hunger Games" series this weekend. I liked the first, was okay with the second, but hated the third :roll: more importantly tho, my 11yr.old son is reading the first one for a school reading requirement :shock: I'm really not that comfortable with this. am I just being over-protective? :|
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:10 pm

kelbel75 wrote:oh hey, I finished the "Hunger Games" series this weekend. I liked the first, was okay with the second, but hated the third :roll: more importantly tho, my 11yr.old son is reading the first one for a school reading requirement :shock: I'm really not that comfortable with this. am I just being over-protective? :|


There's a lot of implied brutality in the HG series. You don't get any gory descriptions of it, but you know it's there. Maybe where he's young and more innocent he isn't aware of just how cruel life can be and won't be filling in the blanks quite so much as we as adults do? I dunno. Technically it IS a YA series... I am unhelpful.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:23 pm

JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:oh hey, I finished the "Hunger Games" series this weekend. I liked the first, was okay with the second, but hated the third :roll: more importantly tho, my 11yr.old son is reading the first one for a school reading requirement :shock: I'm really not that comfortable with this. am I just being over-protective? :|


There's a lot of implied brutality in the HG series. You don't get any gory descriptions of it, but you know it's there. Maybe where he's young and more innocent he isn't aware of just how cruel life can be and won't be filling in the blanks quite so much as we as adults do? I dunno. Technically it IS a YA series... I am unhelpful.

no that was helpful b/c I was kind of thinking the same thing. at first I was like "no way in hell are you reading that book!" but then after he complained that his friends were reading it ( every parent HATES the "my friends are doing it" excuse :x ) I thought that considering how they play their "capture the flag" type games on the playground, and the various war-type video games ( which we're very strict about; we're the "mean" parents in that regard :roll: ) maybe I'm reading to much into what he'll actually retain :?
I want him to warn me BEFORE he reads the final Cornucopia scene tho :shock:
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:29 pm

kelbel75 wrote:no that was helpful b/c I was kind of thinking the same thing. at first I was like "no way in hell are you reading that book!" but then after he complained that his friends were reading it ( every parent HATES the "my friends are doing it" excuse :x ) I thought that considering how they play their "capture the flag" type games on the playground, and the various war-type video games ( which we're very strict about; we're the "mean" parents in that regard :roll: ) maybe I'm reading to much into what he'll actually retain :?
I want him to warn me BEFORE he reads the final Cornucopia scene tho :shock:


Yeah, that last scene is pretty rough. :( Overall I really enjoyed the series, although there were parts of it that really pissed me off. But mainly because it all seemed so senseless, which I guess was the whole point of it all. I'm going to have to go back and read again so I can take my time with it instead of just blitzing through the chapters so I know how it all turns out.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby toooldforthis » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:32 pm

JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:no that was helpful b/c I was kind of thinking the same thing. at first I was like "no way in hell are you reading that book!" but then after he complained that his friends were reading it ( every parent HATES the "my friends are doing it" excuse :x ) I thought that considering how they play their "capture the flag" type games on the playground, and the various war-type video games ( which we're very strict about; we're the "mean" parents in that regard :roll: ) maybe I'm reading to much into what he'll actually retain :?
I want him to warn me BEFORE he reads the final Cornucopia scene tho :shock:


Yeah, that last scene is pretty rough. :( Overall I really enjoyed the series, although there were parts of it that really pissed me off. But mainly because it all seemed so senseless, which I guess was the whole point of it all. I'm going to have to go back and read again so I can take my time with it instead of just blitzing through the chapters so I know how it all turns out.


I wasn't planning on reading this series but ya'll are making me want to read it now. I was especially intrigued when KelBel said over the weekend that Katniss made her miss Bella. What exactly did you mean by that KelBel? Was the lead in HG not a good character?
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:36 pm

JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:no that was helpful b/c I was kind of thinking the same thing. at first I was like "no way in hell are you reading that book!" but then after he complained that his friends were reading it ( every parent HATES the "my friends are doing it" excuse :x ) I thought that considering how they play their "capture the flag" type games on the playground, and the various war-type video games ( which we're very strict about; we're the "mean" parents in that regard :roll: ) maybe I'm reading to much into what he'll actually retain :?
I want him to warn me BEFORE he reads the final Cornucopia scene tho :shock:


Yeah, that last scene is pretty rough. :( Overall I really enjoyed the series, although there were parts of it that really pissed me off. But mainly because it all seemed so senseless, which I guess was the whole point of it all. I'm going to have to go back and read again so I can take my time with it instead of just blitzing through the chapters so I know how it all turns out.

THIS!! I mean, what was the point, really? did I miss it? :? I found most of the story predictable, but the way those things came to pass surprised me somewhat. I was rivited during the first one, it is a good book :D but the others I was very disappointed in :(
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:41 pm

toooldforthis wrote:
JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:no that was helpful b/c I was kind of thinking the same thing. at first I was like "no way in hell are you reading that book!" but then after he complained that his friends were reading it ( every parent HATES the "my friends are doing it" excuse :x ) I thought that considering how they play their "capture the flag" type games on the playground, and the various war-type video games ( which we're very strict about; we're the "mean" parents in that regard :roll: ) maybe I'm reading to much into what he'll actually retain :?
I want him to warn me BEFORE he reads the final Cornucopia scene tho :shock:


Yeah, that last scene is pretty rough. :( Overall I really enjoyed the series, although there were parts of it that really pissed me off. But mainly because it all seemed so senseless, which I guess was the whole point of it all. I'm going to have to go back and read again so I can take my time with it instead of just blitzing through the chapters so I know how it all turns out.


I wasn't planning on reading this series but ya'll are making me want to read it now. I was especially intrigued when KelBel said over the weekend that Katniss made her miss Bella. What exactly did you mean by that KelBel? Was the lead in HG not a good character?

she's a bit more detached than I would like her to be. I know why she is the way she is, but as the story progresses i thought she's grow emotionally, which she really didn't. and it's a MUCH diff't book than Twi, so altho there are some similarities, it's really not fair to compare them. basically: Peeta good, Gale unneccesary, Katniss cold and selfish ;)
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby toooldforthis » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:48 pm

kelbel75 wrote:she's a bit more detached than I would like her to be. I know why she is the way she is, but as the story progresses i thought she's grow emotionally, which she really didn't. and it's a MUCH diff't book than Twi, so altho there are some similarities, it's really not fair to compare them. basically: Peeta good, Gale unneccesary, Katniss cold and selfish ;)


So did it make you feel detached from the characters? Did you feel like you couldn't really get as invested in the story as you might have, had she been more relatable?
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:51 pm

kelbel75 wrote:
JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:no that was helpful b/c I was kind of thinking the same thing. at first I was like "no way in hell are you reading that book!" but then after he complained that his friends were reading it ( every parent HATES the "my friends are doing it" excuse :x ) I thought that considering how they play their "capture the flag" type games on the playground, and the various war-type video games ( which we're very strict about; we're the "mean" parents in that regard :roll: ) maybe I'm reading to much into what he'll actually retain :?
I want him to warn me BEFORE he reads the final Cornucopia scene tho :shock:


Yeah, that last scene is pretty rough. :( Overall I really enjoyed the series, although there were parts of it that really pissed me off. But mainly because it all seemed so senseless, which I guess was the whole point of it all. I'm going to have to go back and read again so I can take my time with it instead of just blitzing through the chapters so I know how it all turns out.

THIS!! I mean, what was the point, really? did I miss it? :? I found most of the story predictable, but the way those things came to pass surprised me somewhat. I was rivited during the first one, it is a good book :D but the others I was very disappointed in :(


I think it was meant to be senseless [spoiler=DO NOT CLICK UNTIL YOU HAVE READ ALL BOOKS]to drive home the point about how cold and detached the Capitol, the government, and the spoiled people in the Capitol were in regards to the people of the other districts. What did they care that people were dying as long as they still had their luxury? The thing with Prim kept Katniss from having to make a choice. If I'd been reading a book instead of my Kindle I probably would have chucked it at that point because the whole point of Kat doing what she did was to keep Prim safe. But in the end, it got Gale out of the picture. The more I read the more I came to realize that it was less a story about a girl trying to keep her friends/family safe and it was more a story about bringing down a corrupt system and creating a world where people would have a chance at happiness.[/spoiler]
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:54 pm

toooldforthis wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:she's a bit more detached than I would like her to be. I know why she is the way she is, but as the story progresses i thought she's grow emotionally, which she really didn't. and it's a MUCH diff't book than Twi, so altho there are some similarities, it's really not fair to compare them. basically: Peeta good, Gale unneccesary, Katniss cold and selfish ;)


So did it make you feel detached from the characters? Did you feel like you couldn't really get as invested in the story as you might have, had she been more relatable?


See, I don't feel that Kat was detatched.. I just felt like she had purposely closed the door on certain emotions due to the conditions in which she was living. When those emotions try to rise back up they scare and confuse her, so she has to crush them back down again. There are certainly parts of the book in which I was screaming "GOD, you are such a stupid
cunt!
" but I didn't want to repeatedly kick her in the face the way I did Bella...
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:57 pm

toooldforthis wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:she's a bit more detached than I would like her to be. I know why she is the way she is, but as the story progresses i thought she's grow emotionally, which she really didn't. and it's a MUCH diff't book than Twi, so altho there are some similarities, it's really not fair to compare them. basically: Peeta good, Gale unneccesary, Katniss cold and selfish ;)


So did it make you feel detached from the characters? Did you feel like you couldn't really get as invested in the story as you might have, had she been more relatable?

I felt for Peeta, I really did, but the others seemed so flat to me. well, except for Haymitch, who's a grown-up and their mentor. you know right away that there are demons that he's battleing, so that alone gives him some depth. I thought I might be able to relate to Katniss b/c of the area that she comes from ( my grandfather is an avid hunter and I come from a family of coalminers). to be fair, the first book was still enjoyable without needing to relate to her. but the third just made me angry and sad.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby toooldforthis » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:00 pm

JodieO wrote:See, I don't feel that Kat was detatched.. I just felt like she had purposely closed the door on certain emotions due to the conditions in which she was living. When those emotions try to rise back up they scare and confuse her, so she has to crush them back down again. There are certainly parts of the book in which I was screaming "GOD, you are such a stupid
cunt!
" but I didn't want to repeatedly kick her in the face the way I did Bella...



I haven't read the books yet, but I sort of know what the setting is, so what you said makes sense. She would probably have to shut down her emotions. I just wonder if that makes it harder to root for her as the lead character. I know when Bella started acting like a complete twat, I just didn't care what happened to her anymore and as a result I didn't enjoy the last two books as much as the first two.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:06 pm

JodieO wrote:
toooldforthis wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:she's a bit more detached than I would like her to be. I know why she is the way she is, but as the story progresses i thought she's grow emotionally, which she really didn't. and it's a MUCH diff't book than Twi, so altho there are some similarities, it's really not fair to compare them. basically: Peeta good, Gale unneccesary, Katniss cold and selfish ;)


So did it make you feel detached from the characters? Did you feel like you couldn't really get as invested in the story as you might have, had she been more relatable?


See, I don't feel that Kat was detatched.. I just felt like she had purposely closed the door on certain emotions due to the conditions in which she was living. When those emotions try to rise back up they scare and confuse her, so she has to crush them back down again. There are certainly parts of the book in which I was screaming "GOD, you are such a stupid
cunt!
" but I didn't want to repeatedly kick her in the face the way I did Bella...

this is what I meant by understanding why she was the way that she was, just like a military leader or a doctor would have to be in order to deal with things on a daily basis. but for all of her brashness and bravery, she seemed to be very clueless on how things "worked". yes, this is a YA novel. but you would think that growing up in that climate and being surrounded by the constant hate for the gov't, that she'd be a little more strategic in that regard.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:10 pm

toooldforthis wrote:
JodieO wrote:See, I don't feel that Kat was detatched.. I just felt like she had purposely closed the door on certain emotions due to the conditions in which she was living. When those emotions try to rise back up they scare and confuse her, so she has to crush them back down again. There are certainly parts of the book in which I was screaming "GOD, you are such a stupid
cunt!
" but I didn't want to repeatedly kick her in the face the way I did Bella...



I haven't read the books yet, but I sort of know what the setting is, so what you said makes sense. She would probably have to shut down her emotions. I just wonder if that makes it harder to root for her as the lead character. I know when Bella started acting like a complete twat, I just didn't care what happened to her anymore and as a result I didn't enjoy the last two books as much as the first two.


I still rooted for Katniss even when I wanted to whap her upside the head. I wasn't rooting for her to die in childbirth the way I was Bella... :? :lol:
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:10 pm

BTW: "Hunger Games"... not a love story. don't want you to be mislead, like I was :roll:
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:15 pm

kelbel75 wrote:
JodieO wrote:See, I don't feel that Kat was detatched.. I just felt like she had purposely closed the door on certain emotions due to the conditions in which she was living. When those emotions try to rise back up they scare and confuse her, so she has to crush them back down again. There are certainly parts of the book in which I was screaming "GOD, you are such a stupid
cunt!
" but I didn't want to repeatedly kick her in the face the way I did Bella...

this is what I meant by understanding why she was the way that she was, just like a military leader or a doctor would have to be in order to deal with things on a daily basis. but for all of her brashness and bravery, she seemed to be very clueless on how things "worked". yes, this is a YA novel. but you would think that growing up in that climate and being surrounded by the constant hate for the gov't, that she'd be a little more strategic in that regard.


Ahh, but a doctor or a military leader is trained to behave like that. Katniss had to learn it all on the fly, so while there would be certain things she would be brash and brave about there are certain things she WOULD be clueless about. A lot of times when I'd be getting mad at her for being stupid I'd stop and remind myself that she was 16 and I'd settle back down. A little. ;)
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:18 pm

JodieO wrote:I still rooted for Katniss even when I wanted to whap her upside the head. I wasn't rooting for her to die in childbirth the way I was Bella... :? :lol:

so you related with Katniss afterall? b/c that's the way she might've felt as well :lol: seriously tho, the love triangle, gah! ( you assured me it wasn't really an issue JodieO, but you lied!!) In Twi when Edward came back and Bella was trying to make the transition back to being "his", it annoyed me that she was disregarding Edward's feelings and how her interactions with Jacob were probably making him feel. but in "Hunger Games", it's like there were no emotions at all.
Peeta hit the nail on the head in his discussion with Gale about who Katniss would chose between the two of them: whoever is better for her survival
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:24 pm

JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:
JodieO wrote:See, I don't feel that Kat was detatched.. I just felt like she had purposely closed the door on certain emotions due to the conditions in which she was living. When those emotions try to rise back up they scare and confuse her, so she has to crush them back down again. There are certainly parts of the book in which I was screaming "GOD, you are such a stupid
cunt!
" but I didn't want to repeatedly kick her in the face the way I did Bella...

this is what I meant by understanding why she was the way that she was, just like a military leader or a doctor would have to be in order to deal with things on a daily basis. but for all of her brashness and bravery, she seemed to be very clueless on how things "worked". yes, this is a YA novel. but you would think that growing up in that climate and being surrounded by the constant hate for the gov't, that she'd be a little more strategic in that regard.


Ahh, but a doctor or a military leader is trained to behave like that. Katniss had to learn it all on the fly, so while there would be certain things she would be brash and brave about there are certain things she WOULD be clueless about. A lot of times when I'd be getting mad at her for being stupid I'd stop and remind myself that she was 16 and I'd settle back down. A little. ;)

but what about her father? I could understand a bit better if she never had a role-model, but she did.
and even if you debate the fact that she shut that part of herself away so as not to be reminded of him b/c it hurt, I would think that when she was faced with a similar heart in Peeta she could embrace it all again
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:30 pm

kelbel75 wrote:
JodieO wrote:I still rooted for Katniss even when I wanted to whap her upside the head. I wasn't rooting for her to die in childbirth the way I was Bella... :? :lol:

so you related with Katniss afterall? b/c that's the way she might've felt as well :lol: seriously tho, the love triangle, gah! ( you assured me it wasn't really an issue JodieO, but you lied!!) In Twi when Edward came back and Bella was trying to make the transition back to being "his", it annoyed me that she was disregarding Edward's feelings and how her interactions with Jacob were probably making him feel. but in "Hunger Games", it's like there were no emotions at all.
Peeta hit the nail on the head in his discussion with Gale about who Katniss would chose between the two of them: whoever is better for her survival


Well yeah! Up until that point all she knew was survival. She had made a choice early in her life that she was never going to fall in love and never have babies because she knew that there was a huge likelihood of it all ending in death and destruction. But she made that decision before she knew what it meant to have feelings for a man, so any time she did start to feel something, she'd try to stuff it away. I don't think Kat was as cold as even she thought she was. Otherwise she wouldn't have been trying so hard to protect everyone around her. She might not admit she loves Peeta, but she was willing to die so that he could live.


I said the love triangle wasn't the main focus of the book. Twilight is about a love triangle and there's some conflict stuff that happens in the background of the story. Hunger Games is a series about a conflict and there's some love triangle stuff going on in the background.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:33 pm

kelbel75 wrote:but what about her father? I could understand a bit better if she never had a role-model, but she did.
and even if you debate the fact that she shut that part of herself away so as not to be reminded of him b/c it hurt, I would think that when she was faced with a similar heart in Peeta she could embrace it all again


And her dad died a horrible death leaving his family to despair and starve. Why would she embrace that possibility for herself or any children she might have?
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby kelbel75 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:57 pm

JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:but what about her father? I could understand a bit better if she never had a role-model, but she did.
and even if you debate the fact that she shut that part of herself away so as not to be reminded of him b/c it hurt, I would think that when she was faced with a similar heart in Peeta she could embrace it all again


And her dad died a horrible death leaving his family to despair and starve. Why would she embrace that possibility for herself or any children she might have?

then why was plain companionship an option with Gale but not Peeta? cause she was actually in love with him and that would lead to babies? btw, my greatgrandfather died in a mining accident and ironically enough his future son-in-law was in it too but survived. now he wasn't blown to bits, but it was still tragic; this doesn't seem like a plausable reason to me to avoid human entanglements. the starving tho: she's a hunter and he's a baker so I think between them they would be way better off then her and her mother/sister were. saving your kids from future HG is the only halfway believable excuse to me.
you need to change the world in order to make it safe for your future children, not decide to just not have them; in this ( and many other) respect I think Katniss was a coward.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:08 pm

kelbel75 wrote:
JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:but what about her father? I could understand a bit better if she never had a role-model, but she did.
and even if you debate the fact that she shut that part of herself away so as not to be reminded of him b/c it hurt, I would think that when she was faced with a similar heart in Peeta she could embrace it all again


And her dad died a horrible death leaving his family to despair and starve. Why would she embrace that possibility for herself or any children she might have?

then why was plain companionship an option with Gale but not Peeta? cause she was actually in love with him and that would lead to babies? btw, my greatgrandfather died in a mining accident and ironically enough his future son-in-law was in it too but survived. now he wasn't blown to bits, but it was still tragic; this doesn't seem like a plausable reason to me to avoid human entanglements. the starving tho: she's a hunter and he's a baker so I think between them they would be way better off then her and her mother/sister were. saving your kids from future HG is the only halfway believable excuse to me.
you need to change the world in order to make it safe for your future children, not decide to just not have them; in this ( and many other) respect I think Katniss was a coward.


She also didn't want to risk her babies being sent to the arena. If the only way to protect them from that fate is to not have any, then I can see where she's coming from. With Gale it was always about hunting and survival (even if Gale was in love with her). It might have led to other things if they had just kept going as they were. With Peeta, he was always in love with her and he made it known, which forced her to deal with those feelings instead of just pretending they don't exist. In a world as grim and downtrodden as Panem is at the beginning of the story she didn't know that changing the world was even an option. She was doing the only thing she knew to spare her family.
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby JodieO » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:09 pm

Hee! Isn't anyone going to step into the arena with me and kelbel?

WHERE'S MAH PARACHUTE!?
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby robsten4life » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:15 pm

JodieO wrote:
kelbel75 wrote:oh hey, I finished the "Hunger Games" series this weekend. I liked the first, was okay with the second, but hated the third :roll: more importantly tho, my 11yr.old son is reading the first one for a school reading requirement :shock: I'm really not that comfortable with this. am I just being over-protective? :|


There's a lot of implied brutality in the HG series. You don't get any gory descriptions of it, but you know it's there. Maybe where he's young and more innocent he isn't aware of just how cruel life can be and won't be filling in the blanks quite so much as we as adults do? I dunno. Technically it IS a YA series... I am unhelpful.

What is that about 5th grade? I think that might be a tad on the young side however I think I had to read Lord of the Flies in English class around that age so I guess it's par for the course....
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Re: A Tuesday You Can't Refuse

Postby robsten4life » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:18 pm

JodieO wrote:Hee! Isn't anyone going to step into the arena with me and kelbel?

WHERE'S MAH PARACHUTE!?

sorry, I would but I'm doing a quick catch up in between work :evil: I had a meeting scheduled for two hours but it lasted three and I was in the middle of an experiment so now I'm playing catch up :roll:
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